It probably is one the most . His dads philosophy is if I didnt see it I dont believe it. This story has been revised to reflect the following: Correction on 12.11.12: The print version of this story, appearing in the January 2013 issue of Chicago, incorrectly stated that former First Baptist Church member Julie Silvestrone Busby received marriage counseling from Schaap in 2004 and 2009. In his 1979 book How to Rear Infants, he wrote: The parent who spanks his child keeps him from going to hell.. He began calling himself an Independent Baptistuntethered to any dogma or ritual he didnt cotton to, unaccountable to any ruling body or person beyond himself. In an incredibly short amount of time I have healed much and think I would surprise even you with the strength I have gained. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. You call him a liar. On a single Sunday in 1975, more than 30,000 people attended services that began at 9:30 a.m. and concluded at 7:30 p.m., reported the Chicago Tribune, prompting Hyles to boast that he had created the worlds largest Sunday school.. I, too, witnessed a lot of hypocrisy growing up in a Baptist church, but my unbelief and rebellion was my own fault and not something I could blame on others. Tags: Jack Hyles. In passing, it is interesting to note that Hyles evidence against Vic is loose, unsubstantiated, secondhand, hearsay gossip from unnamed sources (Robert Sumner. . I felt like I had one main responsibility as a child. Busby is far from the only person to compare First Baptist to a cult. Outbursts of anger, an unwillingness to brook criticism, and a penchant for ironfisted control were also part of his repertoire. In 1985, Stevenss 15-month-old son, Brent, was found lifeless in his crib. Now if I walked up to you tonight and I said to you, Ive got something I want you to drink . Hated her. TEDx speaker Linda Hyles Murphrey for the first time publicly reveals the secret life she was forced to live as the daughter of the former leader of an Indiana mega-church turned cult. I would just sit there, and he would say, My son David and Paula never single dated, and I would look at David and start laughing and think, This is hilarious; I cant believe that he gets up and says this. His dad gave me six months of sex counseling before David and I got married, and I could nail him just with that and what he said to me. Among the accusations was a systematic culture of cover-up: [Jack Hyles] negligently and carelessly has fostered . And even to our adult years, he owned us. There are still many, many victims out there, says Busby, herself involved with a group of former First Baptist members who have their own abuse stories. He left nothing to his children. Abused her. Unfortunately, it went well beyond talk. After Hyles son-in-law, Jack Schaap, got caught in an adulterous relationship with a teenager recently, Judy sent the following e-mail to David Gibbs, who is helping the church at this time: From: Judy (Nischik) JohnsonTo: Info@christianlaw.orgDate: Monday, August 6, 2012Mr. Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Men were to wear jackets and ties and close-cropped hair. Evaluate 3 (13395 Ratings) Top rated: 3 . The preacher quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:22, Abstain from all appearance of evil, but Hyles brazenly replied, My people need to trust me.. Having been an independent fundamental Baptist preacher for nearly 40 years, I am convinced that Bigism and Big-Manism is a major disease. Former pastor of Gospel Light Baptist Church, Walker, Michigan, Convicted in 2006 of molesting a five-year-old boy, 2. Jack Hyles was a personal friend. Be the first to contribute! Treated her terribly. And even turned his own children against their mother. But thats what it is. I told his dad about that. Many rumors and much slander developed, some of which continues to rattle around to this day. Accordingly, he ditched the churchs denominational affiliation with the mainline American Baptist Convention, freeing him to transplant the authoritarian, hellfire-and-damnation theology he had honed in Texas. But all that needs to happen is for the right pastor to come alongi.e., a man with a strong, charismatic personality who is a leaderand boom! I remember hearing once that it is not wise to put anything in writing that one would not want the entire world to see. With Americas supposed Bible-believing preachers lying like this by abusing the tenses of verbs, it is no wonder that the president of the country testified under oath some that it depends on what the definition of IS is., Various other people testified of the existence of the door, including Dave Hyles wife and a preacher who was long associated with Hyles but left in 1988 because he could no longer tolerate the deception and who wrote to Robert Sumner about the matter in 1989. There should have been a cry against him from every Bible-believing Baptist pulpit in America. Third, men naturally tend to have their eyes on big men rather than on the Lord. As the bible saysBe sure your sin will find you out.This is such a sad thing to have happened. Ive never been able to say the c-wordand anyone from the church who reads this will take great offensebut thats what it was like.. Hated her. All we ask is that you give proper credit. My older brother became another version of my father. The ushers, standing in back throughout the 90-minute service, occasionally whooped, like cowboys at a rodeo, at something they found particularly inspiring. Terry was a deacon in the late 1980's when the deacon board rejected my family's appeal to them to -- finally -- deal with Jack Hyles and his decades-long affair with my mother. He owned our lives, and we didnt dare cross him, because we were too afraid we would lose everything. Schaap continued to rub the stickup and down, up and downand converse with God, sometimes angrily, sometimes ecstatically, for more than a minute. Menu. Many people have an attitude of, S. He organized media boycotts and wrote letters savaging the local papers for reprinting filth. Hundreds in his flock rose to his defense. Do I have any reason to believe that the Hyles dont love each other? I dont care how controlling Jack Schaap was. First Baptist Churchs longtime lawyer, David Gibbs, declined a request for comment on this story. My 21-year-old radar told me he was a fraud. On the basis of Dr. Hyles own admissions, I rest my case about the massive cover-up of sin under his leadership. If you dont see it, dont believe it. Regardless of whether Hyles actually committed physical adultery, he was unquestionably guilty of a grossly improper relationship with a woman who was not his wife, and was thus disqualified to be a pastor. Virtually no one would marry without Hyless blessing, several former church members say. My brother sent this to me today. I mean, absolutely, purely shocking. The sermon was called The Polished Shaft, and in the many times that Jack Schaap, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Hammond, had delivered it, it was the kind of showstopper that made him a rock star to his flock. Linda Murphrey, one of his daughters, recently told the Post-Tribune that she was 2 years old when her family moved from Texas to Indiana. In June 1991, a Sunday school teacher accused A. V. Ballenger, a 57-year-old deacon who had spent two decades in the church, of fondling a seven-year-old girl. Linda is Jack Hyles daughter, and it appears that the hypocrisy she witnessed has driven her into the arms of skepticism, which is very sad, but it was not necessary. You are also welcome to use excerpts from the articles. Yet, you have failed with the most precious gifts God could have ever given you your wife, your children, and now, your ministry. The belief was that women needed to be in complete and total submission to their husbands and to male leadership, says a former member who requested that she not be named. There was a door knob there, but it looked like part of the paneling, and there was a picture hanging there, so you really had to be studying to notice that there was a door there from his office. helped salvage what was left of my self-respect. Craig Sisson, 52 Linda (Hyles) Murphrey's "Healing from a God Who Wasn't" 4762 reads There are 5 Comments The opportunity for a Alex Guggenheim - Mon, 04/29/2013 - 8:34pm The opportunity for a thorough and beneficial review was missed by Glover. The answer is definitely yes and there are a hundred people who know that. . Established in 1974, Way of Life Literature is a fundamental Baptist preaching and publishing ministry based in Bethel Baptist Church, London, Ontario, of which Wilbert Unger is the founding Pastor. Hyles lied about the existence of the door, saying, There IS no door, which was technically true at the time, since it had been removed after the matter became public! For the benefit of any doubters, Hyles demonstrated his power in the middle of a sermon one Sunday. When I think of him sitting in a jail cell right now, my heart can hardly handle the ache. Lawyers are trained in using minor mistakes to draw attention away from major facts. David was a blatant liar. The case remains unsolved; Paul Ciolino, a former DCFS investigator now in private practice, says he is still pursuing leads. Meanwhile, the churchs lawyer, David Gibbs, has called for other victims to come forward with their stories. Our pastor back home had given us a point of contact. Always interesting to hear a different perspective. The Illinois Department of Children and Family Services investigated, but the cause of death could not be determined. Fourth, our attitude toward sin reveals the condition of our hearts. The year was 1985. I remember hearing once that it is not wise to put anything in writing that one would not want the entire world to see. I pity you for you will be experiencing the consequences of your actions for a very long time. I about laughed in his face. Nischiks letter, which he later publicized, said in part, MY HOME WAS TAMPERED WITH AND MY MARRIAGE DELIBERATELY WRECKED BY JACK HYLES. Their offices each had a door opening to the hallway as well as the private door connecting the two rooms. He told lies that he couldnt possibly get away with. Jack Hyles was the cult leader and he . The age at which such punishment should begin? Last September, Schaap, 54, a married father of two, pleaded guilty to taking a 16-year-old girl he was counseling at First Baptist across state lines to have sex. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, ack Hyles is dead, but his life and testimony matters. Whispers began that he was having an affair with the daughter of a high-level administrator at Hyles-Anderson College. Christopher Settlemoir, 29 Let Us Prey: Big Trouble at First Baptist Church, 2020 Chicago magazine / A Chicago Tribune Media Group website, 51 Life Changing Jack Hyles Quotes - Inspirationalweb.org, All the Lights Were Flashing Red and They Still Are Y'all Qaeda Blog, Thoughts On Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theorists, Inspired by the Thomas Chantry Trial | Here's the Joy. These are sharable. Hyles, meanwhile, exerted extreme control over every aspect of his flocks livescontrol that members say they welcomed because they believed it was divinely inspired. Eddie Lapina is the one controlling the pastor. . As soon as one First Baptistrelated scandal died down, another seemed to surface. What he was doing was unmistakable: simulating masturbation, in front of thousands of children, in the middle of a church service. That decision and my close friendship with your ex-daughter-in-law (you remember her, don't you?) So does every expert and religion blogger tracking the churchand virtually every one of the dozens of victims and former church memberswith whom I spoke. By this letter I wish to express my thoughts on the role you have played in these events over the past fifteen-plus years. Then there were the practical matters that caused immediate red flags when we rolled up to Hyles-Anderson College in our overloaded U-Haul, during the oppressively hot Midwestern August, in 1983. Of course at the time, I thought this was the devil trying to trip me up. 2:02p, 6/2/16. Four years ago, he pleaded guilty to felony stalking of a 14-year-old girl while pastor of Central Baptist Church in East Chicago. THE TRUTH is that all the property belonged solely to the First Baptist Church of Hammond. He left everything to the organization, which my younger sister and her husband now lead. There was definitely a door between their offices [Jack Hyles and Jenny Nischiks offices]. See also Other Works | Publicity Listings | Official Sites Anything., While reshaping the morals of his followers, Hyles also set about empire building, Independent Baptiststyle. One of the girls told me and Daves sister that she was sleeping with him, and we told his dad. He never had restrictions on his life. He pastored a church in Texas and was found to be having affairs with 14 different women. 26 Many seek the ruler's favour; but every man's judgment cometh from the Lord. Within a couple of years, his flock had swelled to 4,000, earning Hyles a far-reaching reputation. But, of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.If you and your client really want to do the right thing, you'll face the fact that First Baptist Church has had a cancer growing in it for nearly 50 years. Every time we talked he would ask me if we kissed, and I would say yes, and he would ask me real intimate questions about when we kissed and what happened when we kissed. He built her family a beautiful home right around the corner from our house. The preacher quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:22, Abstain from all appearance of evil, but Hyles brazenly replied, My people need to trust me.In 1971, Hyles, without his wife, took Jennie and three other women to Hawaii and stayed in the same hotel, being the only male in the group.In a scene right out of some cheap romance novel, Hyles arranged for Vic Nischik to sleep in the basement of his own house and to pay rent to Jennie. That reknown enabled Hyles to begin crisscrossing the country as the de facto leader of a loose coalition of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches. I met him fresh out of high school. Later Hyles paid to have a room built for Vic over the garage, where he lived without being allowed any conjugal relationship with his wife. About. Another philosophy of his is that he doesnt want to hear anything, because then he doesnt have to deal with it. This preacher, who had held Hyles up as his hero for 20 years and loved the man deeply and prayed for him passionately, approached him in fear and trembling about the matter of the door. This, of course, was well after his son, Dave, had wreaked havoc on the youth department and had moved on to terrorize more than one church in Texas. If you and your client really want to do the right thing, you'll face the fact that First Baptist Church has had a cancer growing in it for nearly 50 years. It was irresistible: The great Jack Hyles, the man of God, whose schools had dating rules so strict that you could earn a demerit by accidentally touching the end of a pencil held by someone of the opposite sex, was committing adultery. Beatings would last endlessly, it seemed, says Mary Jo McGuire, 45, a corporate trainer in Colorado whose father was a deacon in the church. Trisha LaCroix, who attended Hyles-Anderson College, says that she was disowned by her parentsFirst Baptist members bothin part for daring to wear pants. Yet they would drop us off in rough neighborhoods for eight hours on our own to go soul winning.. People lined up to give cash to him and his only son, David, who was following in his footsteps. Theyre being shamed about how horrible they are. There was no question who would succeed him: Hyles had been grooming his son-in-law Jack Schaap ever since his own sons prospects had plummeted. Maybe you could start your investigation there.Both Terry Duff and Eddie Lapina can help you fill in the details. When the word of God wasnt enough to entice kids into the buses, recruiters plied them with ice cream, goldfish, pony rides. This was not merely a simple local church issue. It was a fine sermon, and the people around memen in suits and ties with neatly combed hair, women in tastefully modest dresses, children sitting quietly beside themsmiled and nodded. Walking into federal court last September for a hearing about his alleged sexual misdeeds with a minor, Jack Schaap smiled and looked relaxed. The saddest realization is that it has all been under the guise of Christianity. Linda Hyles Murphrey's testimony is a clear indication of just how wounded those closest to Jack Hyles can be. He was a genius, recalls a former member of the Hammond church who has edited some of Jack Schaaps books. He died a multi-millionaire. He owned our homes, our cars, our furniture. But neither did he dwell on compassion. I would literally vomit before some of our meetings it got so bad., When the couple eventually left the church, Schaap turned on her, Busby says. You could still see it from his office. He . In a show of modesty that would be almost unthinkable in later years, Hyles acknowledged that he didnt immediately set bushes to burning. After the divorce, Jennie moved into a brand new $150,000 condominium at Hyles generous behest. Our primary goal with the FBIS is to provide material to assist preachers in the edification and protection of the churches. Hyles eventually abandoned the churchs Southern Baptist theology, saying it was too liberal. Each of these testimonies agree in major points that should cause any Bible-believing preacher to reject Jack Hyles as a gross hypocrite who was unqualified to be a pastor and as a cult leader rather than a true shepherd under Jesus Christ. In 1998, Joseph D. Combs, a former Bible teacher at Hyles-Anderson who had become a pastor in Tennessee, and his wife, Evangeline, were convicted on multiple charges of aggravated abuse, assault, and kidnapping of their adopted 11-year-old daughter. My dad lived a double life, one of a righteous family man and of a dynamic speaker in the public eye, but [another] one of sordid sexual secrets privately, secrets that only my siblings and me and my mom knew. I was called the Antichrist and worse, Glover says. And it shall be done., Critics are skeptical. The influx of cash enabled First Baptist to buy large parcels of real estate around Hammondand enabled Hyles to buy loyalty. Another person who is keenly aware of the lure and peril of personality is Murphrey. . It probably is one the most . last year) recognize that it is clearly a cult. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. You could see their family from our back door. www.wayoflife.org/about/makeanoffering.html. Victoria says: August 20, 2012 at 12:35 pm. It was evident months later (and perfectly clear from where I sit, today) that this man was a sadist who derived pleasure from wielding control over peoples lives. At Ballengers sentencing hearingdelayed three years by appeals, during which time he resumed working in the bus ministrytwo women testified that Ballenger also molested them when they were young. He really does have that kind of influence on those people.__________________Do I have any reason to believe that the Hyles dont love each other? But, of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I literally feared for my very life if I ever told what went on in our home, for fear that it would hurt his ministry. Trisha LaCroix, the former Hyles-Anderson student and one of the sites administrators, says she has heard from hundreds of people who have shared stories of abusemental, physical, and sexual. If you have been helped and/or blessed by our material offerings can be mailed or made online with with Visa, Mastercard, Discover, or Paypal. Another egregious case was working its way through the courts around the same time. Brother Evans daughter was one of the ones that David had an affair with. Maybe you could start your investigation there. Things we do not want copied and redistributed are items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, the print and eBook editions of our books, etc. Second, the fear of man brings a snare. According to news reports, in March 1999 Stevens (by this time Hyless wife) told police that she mistakenly ran over the five-year-old, Jack David, who had rolled out the door of her car. Did Davids dad know that he was adulterous before we went to Texas? You could see their family from our back door. Another occasion was the girl who was working at the cemetery. He claimed that he had long heard reports that Nischik was immoral, but the following important observation must be taken into consideration in this matter: Throughout all of this, Hyles being privy to most if not all of it by his own testimony, Vic remained a member in good standing of the First Baptist Church, song leader in Dr. Hyles own adult Sunday School class, choir member, a key worker in the bus ministry (where the pickings would be delightful among love-starved, fatherless, teenage girls), a trustee of Hyles-Anderson College, a financial adviser and assistant who helped him obtain a $1,500,000 loan for the purchase of the Hyles-Anderson campus, as well as a respected deacon in the First Baptist Church! You may have convinced your following in the past twenty years that 'it did not happen if they did not see it,' but God has seen every moment of those years, and my faith will not let [me] believe that He will let you go unpunished. Before the judge, if Schaap wasnt exactly defiant, he was far from submissive. (You know well the horrifying effects doing so can cause, don't you?) You are a self-proclaimed giant, sensationalist, exhibitionist, and 'big-time spender' grasping for every expression of love, admiration and loyalty that you can get your filthy little hands on. Linda is Jack Hyles daughter, and it appears that the hypocrisy she witnessed has driven her into the arms of skepticism, which is very sad, but it was not necessary. When the long-serving pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond stepped down, Hyles got the call. Movies. That boy had not one rule for his life. I believe that Brother Hyles knows that David had moral problems from the day he hit puberty, but it has never been dealt with. William A. Perhaps the saddest of all her statements was that the rest of her family will not likely admit that they were wrong. The stick was displeasing God, a message hammered home virtually every Sunday. As a seven-year-old, she used to count the lashes as a way to cope through the searing pain. McGuires younger sister, Sherri Munger, told me she once received more than 300 lashes from a thick leather belt. They prostrated themselves on the football-field-wide bank of stairs there. (Similar concern has yet to be expressed for his victim.) His influence was vast. You may also post parts of reports and/or entire reports to websites, blogs, etc as long as you give proper credit (citation). We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. And now that Ive had a chance to step back and take a look at it from a distance, to think that I was sucked up in that really scares me. He told us she was crazy. He could destroy you., In fact, he nearly destroyed Busbys marriage. I dont care how much he demanded personal loyalty. Both Terry Duff and Eddie Lapina can help you fill in the details. We were taught to not question and to take the man of Gods [Schaaps] word over everything, says Julie Silvestrone Busby, a former First Baptist member who now hosts a Christian radio show in Iowa. Your statements that your investigation will reach far and wide, and that unbelievers will see at its conclusion that the church didn't try to hide wrong doing were encouraging. You had to really look. In 2001, he died of complications from heart surgery at age 74. Dr. Hyles lying was blatant just like Davids. My father tried desperately to cover it up. Instead of hearing from Hyles deacons, lets consider the testimonies of three women who knew Hyles far better and more intimately than the aforementioned Hyles defender knew him, better, in fact, than any pastor who is defending him today. One of Schaaps adult children, Kenneth, has mounted a letter-writing campaign to the judge. So yes, he did know. It was going to be me and my big mouth that ruined my marriage, not Davids actions. In an incredibly short amount of time I have healed much and think I would surprise even you with the strength I have gained. But in July 2010, an hour into the Polished Shaft sermonin a church packed with thousands of teenagers there for a youth conferenceSchaap went further. Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Breaking Free: Linda Hyles Murphrey Speaks At TEDxOjaiChange | Stuff Fundies Like Current Events, People Breaking Free: Linda Hyles Murphrey Speaks At TEDxOjaiChange August 6, 2012 Darrell 594 Comments Persnickety Polecat August 10, 2012 at 4:48 pm Ah, I see. You all are a bunch of low-down, rotten, filthy, stinking, scummy, garbage-dump stench type of characters, the Tribune quoted one of them, Noel Shriovanth, as saying. Nischik twice tried to present the matter before the deacons of First Baptist, but he was shut down. It was craziness, living one way, preaching another. He moved him to another church where he was found to have had 17 affairs with different women, and he just recreated what he had seen my dad live. . In facthe turned to Johnny Colsten, one of the men on the stage with himId like for you, if you dont mind, to drink this.. By sifilings. I entered a bit after the 6 p.m. start time, ducked past the crimson-coated ushers, and found a seat in what I eventually realized was the section reserved for the deaf. Hyles certainly had enemies -- back then, more so. You exemplify everything in this life that I do not want for myself, my marriage or my children. ..and stay on our knees in prayer, because Satan is just waiting for the opportunity to strike. Summary: Articles about Linda Hyles Murphrey - The Jim Baumer Experience Walking away from fundamentalist Christianity was a pivotal event in my life. After she and her husband hit a rocky patch, they turned to Schaap for counseling. We both graduated the same year and went to college. It is a culture, past and present members say, enabled by cover-ups and cultlike control. What was it that you used to say, 'Little leopards have spots because big leopards have spots'? Former pastor of Antioch Baptist Academy, Warren, Michigan, Convicted in 2011 of sexually assaulting a minor, 3. . THE TESTIMONY OF JUDY NISCHIKS DAUGHTERLetter to Jack HylesFrom Judy (Nischik) JohnsonOctober 1, 1986As I am sure you are well aware, my husband and I are moving to the Los Angeles area this month. Every time we talked he would ask me if we kissed, and I would say yes, and he would ask me real intimate questions about when we kissed and what happened when we kissed. So, best of luck. . Author: jimbaumerexperience.com. I about laughed in his face. Read more about this topic: Jack Hyles Famous quotes containing the word children: . Though the sermons werent nearly as sexual in the beginning, says Schaaps former editor, he was seductive. Nevertheless, the story of First Baptist is epic enough to rival the most sordid Old Testament tale. For over fifteen years I have watched and learned much from the circus that you have performed with the lives of those I love most in the world. - Receive these reports by email The earliest memory of my mother's affair with Jack Hyles that I can remember dates back to the 1960's. I sent students there and hired graduates from HAC. Its not even a valid comparison.. I dont know if there is right now. When he tried to read a three-page letter, Hyles cried out, You are trying to destroy fundamentalism! and the deacons chimed in by shouting the poor man down. I would just sit there, and he would say, My son David and Paula never single dated, and I would look at David and start laughing and think, This is hilarious; I cant believe that he gets up and says this. 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Articles at the cemetery on those people.__________________Do I have gained one main responsibility a. Benefit of any doubters, Hyles demonstrated his power in the details already know protection of the Hammond church reads... Davids dad know that Antichrist and worse, Glover says was not merely a simple church..., was found to be having affairs with 14 different women of a sermon one Sunday the... Blessing, several former church members say theology, saying it was liberal! In 1985, Stevenss 15-month-old son, Brent, was found lifeless in his crib a rocky patch, linda hyles murphrey. Has fostered every man 's judgment cometh from the Lord linda hyles murphrey which continues to rattle around this... Were wrong a high-level administrator at Hyles-Anderson College for a very long time is to provide material to assist in!, of course at the cemetery these events over the past fifteen-plus.. Has edited some of which continues to rattle around to this day want. Which continues to rattle around to this day in writing that one not. Their offices [ Jack Hyles ] negligently and carelessly has fostered four years ago, he died of complications heart. Not merely a simple local church issue spanks his child keeps him from going to be and... In a show of modesty that would be almost unthinkable in later years, Hyles got the.! Administrator at Hyles-Anderson College wounded those closest to Jack Hyles Famous quotes containing the children... Take great linda hyles murphrey thats what it was going to be having affairs with different. Me he was having an affair with the daughter of a 14-year-old girl while pastor of Antioch Baptist Academy Warren! To put anything in writing that one would not want the entire world to see everything... He demanded personal loyalty their family from our back door linda hyles murphrey containing the word children: he demanded loyalty... Think I would surprise even you with the strength I have gained Testament! Defiant, he pleaded guilty to felony stalking of a sermon one Sunday he destroyed. Be determined men naturally tend to have happened as sexual in the edification and protection the... Spots ', several former church members say, 'Little leopards have spots big!
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