"Okay, let's move to the next page, please. See all plans accepted. He hits her. She felt she had to hit him back if he hit her, and so she always did.Question (35:18), And again, that entry is from a session where Mr. Depp was not physically present, correct?Dr Anderson (35:25), [Reading from the session notes.] Fight on her April 22 birthday. She knew that what they were doing wasn't healthy. No closed fist. A lot of that conversation is Amber returning time and again to chastising and demeaning Johnny for leavingfights and Johnny trying to get her to see that he must leave when she gets physical. (The penetrated her with a liquor bottle part may be a new accusation with the US trial. Participants ina study in Georgia, USAwere asked to "read about a psychologically or physically aggressive interaction between a husband and wife." In his book,Gender Inclusive Treatment of Intimate Partner Abuse: A Comprehensive Approach, John Hamel points out that: "The term mutual is ambiguous, with a number of possiblemeanings.". There was some testimony from the London trial that was under seal, so she may have presented this story there and it wasn't made public until now.). via phone at (310) 826-9576. Dr. Anderson's Office Locations 1 9911 W Pico Blvd # 1070, Los Angeles, CA 90035 Directions (310) 826-9576 I consulted with Dr. Anderson in 2020 because my fianc and I were sick with a. (Some couples' counselors do this. Correct?". (It would not be unusual for a DV victim to initially turn attention away from publicly shaming their partner and then tell the truth later. He had been well controlled, I think, for almost, I don't know, 20/30 years, and both were victims of abuse in their homes, but I thought he had been well controlled for decades. There may have been more, but I don't remember., Go back very briefly to exhibit two. This content is not available in your current region. It was a process issue., [Dr Anderson and the lawyer are referring to the exhibit with Dr. Andersons session notes. ThatAmber is triggered by the thought thatJohnnyis leaving is typical of something someone withBorderline Personality Disorderwould do. Avideo deposition of Dr Laurel Anderson, Johnny Depp and Amber Heard's couples' therapist, was presented during Johnny's WaPo article defamation trial on April 14, 2022. Any underlining that appears in the transcript excerpts is added by me to draw attention to that portion. And she says that she hits back and now she starts it and sometimes hits him first because her history is having been violated by her father physically and just out of pride, a lot of things trigger her. And you write: The physical violence that occurred between them appeared to me to be mutual. You never actually witnessed any physical violence by Mr. Depp or by Ms. Heard, correct?Dr Anderson (56:48), And you said that They were each victims of domestic violence, both in their family. I was pretty aware of what he meant. "Dr Anderson (34:15), Did Miss Heard tell you that she socked Mr. Depp?Dr Anderson (34:38), Yes. His mother had just died on the 20th.Question (49:26), Well, when he told you that there was a fight on April 20, 222 birthday, was that Ms. Heards 30th birthday?Dr Anderson (49:37), And is he telling you that he arrived late for the birthday dinner party and there was a huge fight?Dr Anderson (49:47), I believe I'm quoting. Dr Anderson describesAmber as talking over Johnny, cutting him off, andbarraging him. And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. (458) 232-4831 About Laurel E Anderson is a Clinical Social Work/Therapist , LCSW, and is based out of Eugene, Oregon, United States. Extreme fear of abandonment and becoming abusive whenthat fear is triggered is very typical of people with BPD. No closed fist. The practitioner's primary taxonomy code is 103TC0700X with license number PSY9217 (CA). Huge fight. And that one paragraph is still there.". -Ann. "And at that point, because I'm typing quickly as they go along, I'm switching into a different voice more about the process between them, where she has, I believe, interrupted him. Could be one session. From Dr Anderson's testimony,it appears that the non-DV portions of exhibits were redacted: "Its the only thing in this clinical session that apparently was about physical abuse or else it would not have been redacted out.". The therapist's notes show that Amber accuses Johnny of having been the first to hit, but Johnny is not present duringher Oct 6, 2015 session when this accusation is leveled. It's over pretty much. The relationship is not good. He's also very verbal when no one's interrupting him. Then last night, Monday, she slapped him as he sat there talking incoherently. . 7,752,060 and 8,719,052. Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. Did they come from Johnny hitting her after she hit him? Yes. (I might be ignorant here, Ive never been to couples counselling, but it really strikes me as odd that she saw Ms. Heard significantly more often in solo appointments than she saw Mr. Heard countersued for $100 million.. You write: Didn't fight on island until last day. It appears thatDr Anderson didn't have access to all the information about Johnny and Amber's relationship that has been made public the last several years. No Yes Select an available time 9701 SW Barnes Rd, Suite 130, Portland, OR 97225 Wed Jan 18 Thu Jan 19 Fri Jan 20 9:35 am 10:00 am 10:05 am Keep up the good work, Ann. Interestingly, during this same period of time, I am working on writing a book chapterwith tips for therapists who work withabused men. . Im wondering if Dr. Anderson knew about the apparent diagnosis or diagnosed it herself during the time she worked with Ms. Heard, because if either of that is the case Im left wondering why she believed Ms. Heards versions without seemingly double checking? Has the patient seen this doctor before? The excuse that "I hit them because they disrespected me" is a marker of someone who grossly overreacts and turns to physical violence when they are emotionally hurt. This "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to abused men is reminiscent of what DV activists say they are fighting againstbut they typically ONLY fight against it when a woman is the designated victim. From her testimony presented at the US defamation trial, Dr Anderson does not appear to have the advantage we have in hearing the2-hour recorded conversation between Amber and Johnnythat occurred the day before Amber emailed Dr Anderson to set up an initial marriage counseling appointment. I don't remember that well.Question(59:06), Is that, Dr. Anderson, consistent with your understanding that there were no other entries on December 15 or December 17 relating to physical abuse?Dr Anderson (59:20), There was nothing about physical abuse. Question (40:34), "Did she tell you that he had hit her first, or was she the one who initiated the slap?" And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.. What did you mean by that? And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. For example, theNational Domestic Violence Hotline says that mutual abuse is a myth. And it's just that they're fighting and she has a hard time. She threw can at him since home fighting. Bruce A. Levine And so I lay out here are the things I think we need to work on, and then there are action steps for all of them so that someone has a more directed sense of what they're doing in psychotherapy as opposed to just coming in and talking about how they feel.". Other research shows that helping professionals have similar prejudices: "Individuals who work in the helping professions also assess behaviors by male partners to be more threatening and harmful than when those same behaviors are displayed by female partners.". No discussion of session content during the trial. I would certainly want copies of the pictures for my file if my client presented me with something similar, and I would make detailed notes about this interaction with a client whether it was an official "session" or not.). She hits back and now starts it for pride because father hit her.. When. Another thing that infuriates me is her way of giving testimony of things she cant be sure of, because she never heard both sides/ didnt seem to look further into the DV claims. (I talk more about this in another post:Why is it So Hard To Recognize Abuse OF Men BY Women as a Problem?). We'll leave it to you two to arrange a time.. 2005-2023 Healthline Media a Red Ventures Company. Times given in brackets throughout represent the time on the transcript. Thismeeting was not included in the list of sessions but is discussed in the testimony excerpts below. Find Providers by Specialty Find Providers by Procedure. I think you've described this in the course of your testimony, but I did want to ask you about your sentence: She reported always hitting him back as a point of pride, but admitted that she eventually initiated the hitting herself. Is the she you're referring to, Ms. It is unclear to me whether Dr Andersonexcuses Amber's behavior oris notingreasons for Amber's behavioras areas of focus for therapy. He may not have even known that Amber was seeing Dr Anderson for any one-on-one appointments beyond the first individual intake sessions theyeach had. During a phone call session between Amber and Dr Anderson Dec 15, 2015, Amber asks "Will she have advantage if she leaves him but files with police for abuse first? Men are made responsible for their own actions andthe woman's actions. From Dr Anderson's testimony related to a phone session with Amber on Dec 15, 2015: [Reading from the session notes.] Fax. Sheryl Monaughan 46 reviews # 2 of 1320. You recall that testimony?, And you were making motions with your fingers., But I was saying multiple I'm not saying one., Right. Her current practice location is 9911 W Pico Blvd, 1070, Los Angeles. That's not my language., Turn to page 13 where it says was chaotic, violent. Do you know what Mr. Depp was referring to there?. Dec 15, 2015 -- This session was discussed during testimony. Dr. Laurel Anderson. Languages English Education Medical Board Certifications Geriatric Medicine, American Board of Internal Medicine, 2005. Dr. Laurel Anderson has 15 years of experience in clinical psychology. The second half is a more continuous transcriptpresented in a timeline sequence without much commentary. In the conversation, Johnny repeatedlystates that he needs to leave wheneverAmber gets physical and Amberrepeatedlycriticizes Johnnyfor taking that stance. Women's violence against men is often excused away. And this refers to a session that was just you and Ms. Heard, correct?, And this call, which was just between you and Ms. Heard and not Mr. Depp involved, that occurred on or about December 15, 2015?, And was it just shortly after that call when Ms. Heard showed you pictures and actually came into your office, is that right?, So Ms. Herd came in on December 17 and you saw bruises on her face, is that correct?, Was that bruising that you observed similar to the bruising that appeared on the photographs that she showed you?, You testified that what you saw in person was similar to what you saw in the photographs Amber gave you, correct?, When she came into your office on December 17, what did her face look like?, What I recall is not purple, green and blue, but just a darkening, so kind of a darker gray-blue sort of thing. It also doesn't fit with Dr Anderson's descriptions of the session that follow. Profile, Reviews, Appointments, Insurances. And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.. . No closed fist. "Dr Anderson (40:59), right below what we were just talking about in red. If she felt disrespected, if he was going to leave her to deescalate from the fight, she would strike him to keep him there. What's the reason for your visit? Dr Laurel Anderson is licensed to practice in California (license number PSY9217) and her current practice location is 9911 W Pico Blvd, 1070, Los Angeles, California. What I said previously, and I'll say it again, he's kind of doing a retrospective of trying to understand a relationship and is characterizing it as chaotic and violent. ", [It sounds like the majority of the summary is redacted because it doesnt refer to DV. "Question (40:34), "Did she tell you that he had hit her first, or was she the one who initiated the slap? (It's possible that it came up and we just don't know about it, but the lack of testimony about these sessions points toward them being about subjects other than DV.). You said she showed you photos. Dr. Anderson's office is located at 9911 W Pico Blvd # 1070, Los Angeles, CA 90035. she slapped him as he sat there talking incoherently. You said she showed you photos. When I was first subpoenaed or my notes were required years ago. She is sure that Amber initiated physical violence against Johnny "on more than one occasion" but isn't sure that Johnnyeverinitiated it. What I said previously, and I'll say it again, he's kind of doing a retrospective of trying to understand a relationship and is characterizing it as chaotic and violent. We don't really have to see research to know that abuse by women against men gets minimized, but here are a couple of references showing that both the general public and helping professionals tend to discount abuse when it's female-to-male and show more concernabout male-to-female abuse. And so is it your testimony that she showed you photos of her injuries shortly after the alleged event.Dr Anderson (55:45), Somewhere in the period while she still had injuries. (I've worked with couples who eventually disclose information about their relationship that they had agreed amongst themselves to keep secret from me. Westwood Internal Medicine 200. Hi Nanda. Oct 21, 2015 --JD left part way through the session and the session continued with Amber alone. 2. Why is it So Hard To Recognize Abuse OF Men BY Women as a Problem? Dr. Laurel Anderson speciality, credentials, practice address, contact phone number and fax are as below. Additionally, she offered some impressions of the couple's relationship and behaviors. ", He hits her. I just want to say I am really enjoying your site and your analysis of the Depp/Heard case. Superior Court Judge Stanley M. Weisberg sentenced Lyle Menendez, now 28, and Erik Menendez, 26, to life in prison. Sept 2015 Introduction and Appointment Request. I think while he's talking, and I'm not trying to be obtrusive with my taking notes. Good to hear that you appreciate the post. She showed me photos, but she also came in and showed me in person., Other than the bruising on her face, what other injuries did she show you?, I don't remember. #JohnnyDepp #AmberHeard @LawCrimeNetwork. You were seeing multiple bruises on Amber's face when you were talking about how the size of it your fingers were under your eyes. Phone. You're getting fame from me. Their dialogue -- he was cut off a lot. During her testimony below, she is looking at an exhibit created from her therapy session notes. "It's a treatment summary. The way that this practice played out for this couple provides an example of how it can backfire.). I think he may have initiated it on occasions, too, that I'm less sure on. So she was trying to figure out what to do. That typically means that they went over personal history forms. I created it. she came in --- she talked to me by phone, and then came in the next day. Visit findatopdoc.com for all information on Dr. Laurel Anderson PH.D., Psychologist | Clinical in Los Angeles, CA, 90035. I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction, Did she interrupt him during your other sessions. (503) 297-4779 OVERVIEW Dr. Anderson-Cowell graduated from the Suny Upstate Medical University College of Medicine in 1988. She rose to the challenge if he started first, which in my opinion, that had been established throughout the relationship, that she fought as hard as he did. Oct 7, 2015 -- This session is described as an "Intake". in more than one place. Therapists and others need to ask themselves whether Johnny's accusation of"being hit in the jaw"didn't get more in-session attention because the accusation came from a man. Dr Andersonhad a mixture of sessions that were one-on-one and with both JD and AH present, but they were described by her as all focused on couples' therapy. Ambertakes the conversation off in another direction (as an abuser would) and the topic of physical abuse never seems to come up in joint sessions again. On the other hand, it is also reasonable to think that Johnny's accusation should have led Dr Anderson to ask lots of follow-up questionsso she could assess what, if any, physical violence is present in this couple and the physical safety of both parties. So nice to hear from a professional. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., A few minutes later in Dr Anderson's testimony, they are discussing her Treatment Summary where Dr Anderson describesthis slap of Johnny as Amber "trying to initiate a fight." The first half of this post provides background to Dr Anderson's testimony andtestimony analysis with selected transcript excerpts. The content on Healthgrades does not provide medical advice. ", Will she have advantage if she leaves him but files with police for abuse first? Was that a question that she asked you?, Yes. Within a couple of days of the Dec 15, 2015 phone call session, Amber goes to see Dr Anderson in-person. And I've already said what it was. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., "Doctor Anderson, have you ever seen this document before? ], I think it is important that people recognize that reasons for behavior don't excuse behavior. Anderson Laurel, PhD has 5 stars. Correct? That's kind of a direct quote. And this refers to a session that was just you and Ms. Heard, correct?Dr Anderson (57:42), And this call, which was just between you and Ms. Heard and not Mr. Depp involved, that occurred on or about December 15, 2015?Dr Anderson (57:54)Yes.Question(57:55), And was it just shortly after that call when Ms. Heard showed you pictures and actually came into your office, is that right?Dr Anderson (58:06), She came in on 12/17, so yes.Question(58:09), So Ms. Herd came in on December 17 and you saw bruises on her face, is that correct?Dr Anderson (58:18), Was that bruising that you observed similar to the bruising that appeared on the photographs that she showed you?Dr Anderson (58:32), You testified that what you saw in person was similar to what you saw in the photographs Amber gave you, correct?Dr Anderson (58:41), When she came into your office on December 17, what did her face look like?Dr Anderson (58:50), What I recall is not purple, green and blue, but just a darkening, so kind of a darker gray-blue sort of thing. Nothing in that next session. I don't remember, but I do remember her face.. Did she admit it?Dr Anderson (30:30), I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new directionand they continued to talk, and there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. NPI details are as mentioned below. This undermines that validity of Dr Anderson's diagnosis, but let's look further at Dr Anderson's mutual abuse conclusion. Always consult a medical provider for diagnosis and treatment. Or at least I thought somewhere around the time she got the injuries. She may have asked them to describe their worst fights. I wasn't looking to memorize it. The DV community's rejection of the idea of mutual abuse is grounded in their belief that DV is caused by patriarchy. Was chaotic violence, but gave as good as she got. What does that mean? Dr. Laurel Anderson, a clinical psychologist based in Los. And if she felt disrespected, she had come out of her background history, feeling that her pride needed to dominate and she needed to stand up for herself.Question(34:05), "When Ms. Heard told you that Johnny Depp hits her or slaps her, Johnny Depp was not present, correct? That Amber emailed Dr Anderson about an appointment on Sept 27, 2015is interesting in that we have a recorded 2-hour conversation between Johnny and Amber from the day before. Visit RateMDs for information on Laurel Anderson in Los Angeles. Did you ask what Mr. Depp meant by gave as good as she got? During the deposition, both parties had a chance to question the psychologist. That domestic violence was skirted as a topic in joint sessions and the intake session when Johnny was alone with Dr Anderson seems to be confirmed by a fact that comes out late inhertestimony: the violent episode about 6 months prior to the start of couple's counselingin which Johnny's finger is severed is not mentioned until Johnny has a session with Dr Anderson after the marriage ends. He couldn't keep up with her rapid fire way of conversation. And I want to ask you about that one paragraph. And again, that entry is from a session where Mr. Depp was not physically present, correct? Want to want to divorce? I know she came in in person to show me.. (This seems surprising. Disclaimer: School attendance zone boundaries are supplied by Pitney Bowes and are subject to change. Who is Dr Laurel Anderson? "Dr Anderson (20:26). And so is it your testimony that she showed you photos of her injuries shortly after the alleged event., Somewhere in the period while she still had injuries. 1. "Male aggression toward females produced higher ratings of aggressiveness and more negative evaluations of perpetrators than female aggression toward males.". They may have been in other places throughout her body. It is a common justification for domestic violence and other violence. Dr Anderson appears to have a policy of meeting with each member of a couple separately for an intake session in order to provide an opportunity for each to speak freely about things they may fear bringing up in front of their partner. Laurel specializes in the counseling of Relationship Issues, Coping Skills, Trauma and PTSD, etc. I know she led on more than one occasion and started it to keep him with her because abandonment and having him leave was her worst nightmare. Oct 24, 2015 -- Phone session. And when left alone to speak, he can describe intelligently what's going on. Its good to hear that you found the post interesting and helpful. The testimony shows that DV was discussed during 3 out of 4 of the solo appointments that Amber had with Dr Anderson. LOCATIONS East San Gabriel Valley Mental Health Center 1359 N Grand Ave Covina, CA, 91724 Tel: (626) 229-3873 Mon8:00 am - 7:00 pm Tue8:00 am - 5:00 pm Wed8:00 am - 7:00 pm Thu8:00 am - 5:00 pm. It isn't stated directly that that was her question to them, but that would be a fairly common questionin couples' therapy. Many don't. Dr Anderson met Amber alone 4 times but only met Johnny alonetwice: once for an initial intake appointment and once onJune 18, 2016. Did she admit it? He loved her. No closed fist. 1-Depp v. Heard: Johnny Depp Opening Statement . But she gave as good as she got and she started it. They have also lived in Columbus, OH and Dallas, TX. I didn't include parts of the testimony about things like appointment dates and lengths, butdid include my summary of that information. And I pointed out the process to her at some point, and she got it that no one could actually have a decent dialogue with her if she was rapid firing and talking over and just barraging. So when she said in terms of physical abuse that he hits her, a no close fist means an open hand slap to me. 5 (2 ratings) Leave a review 9911 W Pico Blvd # 1070 Los Angeles, CA 90035 Make an Appointment Show Phone Number Overview Ratings 2 About Me Insurance Locations Compare Compare Dr. Laurel Anderson, PHD with other Clinical Psychologists near you Dr. Debra Greenberg, PHD And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. Dr. Anderson failed both her patients, but actively harmed JD by characterizing their relationship as . "if he was going to leave her to deescalate from the fight, she would strike him to keep him there". Interesting about March 2015: Mar 8th is when Johnny's finger was severed in Australia during a fight between JD and AH. I keep moving from one of your postings to the next because your feedback is interesting and insightful. she says that she hits back and now she starts it and sometimes hits him first, feeling that her pride needed to dominate, When Ms. Heard told you that Johnny Depp hits her or slaps her, Johnny Depp was not present, correct?". . (There is evidence that Dr Anderson accepts as true whatever Amber is telling her in individual sessions. What she reported to me, which was an improvement that she didn't participate.. Dr Anderson's mention of "mutual abuse" got a lot of attention in media after her testimony. And that he hit her, dragged her across broken glass, and penetrated her with a liquor bottle, etc. However, since anything that wasnt about DV was redacted its difficult to say for sure what she mightve (imo) neglected, so some things can only be speculated. in more than one place. [For more on what happened on this date:Johnny Depp and Amber Heard May 2016 Domestic Violence Abuse Accusation, What Happened?]. PSY9217 (California).