There is quite a common misconception that replacing polybutylene pipes costs a lot of money and is likely to break the bank. We've done the research and found that not only would damages be costly if the pipes burst, but we would also have a hard time selling the house in the future or even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. Some investors are called house flippers. Now You Know. . People looking to buy a new house and who work with brokers will be looking at several properties that preferably dont have these kinds of pipes. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? $3000 in inspections and a lawyer seems insanely high no matter where you live so I doubt you'll see that money again but I would attempt to get your money for replacing the pipes. This allowed "jointless" layouts. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. To learn more about dealing with mold or water damage, you can read our other articles Selling a House with Mold Problems and Selling a Flooded or Water Damaged House. lending What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. foreclosure Even home inspectors cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed. Your contractor should talk to you about whether its possible to leave the existing pipes in place and re-route the water through the new pipes. Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. May be used as supply lines to plumbing fixtures or . Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. Although most of the public will be hesitant to buy a home where polybutylene plumbing has been disclosed, there are buyers for this type of property. My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. landlord If you are looking to purchase a home, look out for the signs of polybutylene piping as inspectors and realtors may not be required to disclose. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. real estate Suppose youve just bought a house or rented one, and after some inspection, you find out that the housing has polybutylene pipes. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. to learn more. National costs for these repairs are from $1,000 to $4,000 for water damage, and from $500 to $3,500 for mold removal or remediation. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. This website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed. In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. All Rights Reserved. Thus, this can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to buy the house. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? The problem was that these pipes shortly began to fail in astounding numbers. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? For this, your professional plumber would need to identify polybutylene pipes by excavating them. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? In your case asking for $50k discount plus $20k probably wouldn't work. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. You may have seen examples of this on television. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. foreclosures These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. And try and get the price reduced. 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. Why is it a problem? Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. Interview several and check their references. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? I'm willing to keep going if they will cover the cost of repairs to replace them since the pipes are a ticking time bomb and most insurance won't cover you if you knew they were poly pipes. Why is it a problem? I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. When temperatures rise and fall, poly pipes will expand and contract. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. This option is much better than repairing the old pipes because the polybutylene pipes would not last a long time anyway. Most insurance companies will outright decline to insure a home with PB-pipe because of its history of failure. Over the years Brian has been involved in over 300 transactions of income producing properties across the US. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? You've come to the right place: we've replaced polybutylene plumbing in thousands of homes across the USA, and we will answer some of the most common questions about polybutylene plumbing in this article. In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. If you think you may have a problem of this type, talk immediately to your insurance agent. The seller may not want to take the home off the market to have the work done, which includes ripping out a lot of drywall, and there are a lot of properties with this kind of problem. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. You only deal with the buyer. Polybutylene water supply pipes broke in the ground outside homes causing soil erosion and foundation damage (if this has already happened to your property, here is an article about selling a house with foundation problems). Note: If a home is listed on the MLS (the local Multiple. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. They intend to sell the house right away after repairs are made. Contact us to have one of our local estimators provide a free consultation and quote, delivered in-home or remotely. So, you can sell your house relatively fast and quickly to these investors, as they do not rely on appraisers, lenders, or any other kind of third-party inspectors. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Historically, there has been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. Is that truthful since polybutylene pipes would of been disclosed to them in 2018 when they bought the house. Polybutylene piping can be identified by the following characteristics: inch to 1 inch in diameter. In this case, some buyers might demand you to replace the existing polybutylene pipes, and some might ask for a reduction in price so they can re-pipe the home after theyve bought it. Cookie Notice How far should stair nosing stick out? mortgages If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . This is true for a private source like a well, or a municipal water line. Owners of these homes are playing musical chairs, waiting for their turn to have to deal with problems caused by polybutylene plumbing. With over 20+ years of experience in real estate investment and renovation, Brian Robbins brings extensive knowledge and innovative solutions to the HouseCashin team. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. Pests. You sell your home without having to spend the time and money needed to fix it. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). We will get it done for you. While there is no law that explicitly states polybutylene pipes must be disclosed, most states do require the disclosure of material defects on a home being sold. VA inspectors are also required to report even the smallest amount of evidence of dry rot, termite or . Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful The form's name, length, and required information vary by state . We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. But I'm not sure how we could find that out. This way you can decide which method is right for you. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? Has your homeowners' insurance company declined to renew your policy, because of those gray pipes you've been living with just fine for years? The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. Of course, the price depends on the size of the house, the number of rooms if you do it yourself or hire a plumber, and of course, the type of pipes you buy. See our blog posts What does polybutylene pipe look like? Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. For more information, please see our However, if you know you have poly plumbing - you will most likely need to disclose that fact. Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes to buyers when they sell their home. If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. Houses are expensive things to own and unexpected bills can come up at any time. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. I have inspection contingency so I have the option of walking away. Some states' disclosure laws are more comprehensive than others, and if a feature isn't on the list the seller may not be required to speak up. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. Here's what the law requires on a seller's disclosure in Wyoming. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. You just have to know who your prospective buyers are, where to find them, and what other factors of such a deal you should consider. That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. Whether it's snakes, mice, or bats, in most . Why is old galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers? Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? What do you mean I cant get home insurance? We know that many houses built between 1978 and 1995 have polybutylene pipes. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. These variables . Does a seller have to disclose polybutylene pipes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutylene. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. Now that you know the years that piping was used and maybe even what it looks like, you're an educated buyer who will know to ask that question and check it out for yourself before spending money on another inspection. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. Facts vs. Fiction 7. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. Must have picked a poor agent and a poor home inspector, or gone carelessly without either. The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. Repipe Specialists - USA. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). Please include a message before submitting. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? Better, but not a total solution. After that, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes in new construction. Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. The plumber will also help you identify any potential threats and risks the polybutylene pipes pose to the house. Most states have stricter . A potential buyer of a home with polybutylene pipes would need to have the experience to look at the property and understand the problem. This could potentially make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are substandard and present realtors with an issue for their clients - both sellers and buyers. They collect rental income over time and can sell the property later. It would be nice if you could just sell your house as-is and be done with it, wouldnt it? McGarry and Madsen. Click here for more information. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. The majority of polybutylene plumbing installed is still installed and working fine. We will get it done for you. Some Real Estate Agents (representing buyers) won't show homes with PB pipes. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. However, with time, these pipes faults became more evident, and different types of pipes were developed and produced that were much stronger and durable than polybutylene pipes. Their business model is to purchase properties that they can repair or upgrade. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. So, if you're absolutely in love with a home with polybutylene piping, have your real estate agent ask the seller to either . The kind of pipes you use to replace them, The size of your home and how many stories it has, Whether or not the work includes exterior water supply connections, the availability of the inspecting plumber and the contractor, if you have good weather for any exterior work, the average Days On Market (DOM) for resale homes in your area. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? Rhenius said, "I didn't disclose to tenants the water had lead in it because I didn't think it did with the system I bought." The house was sold in August for $477,500, according to . Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. Licensed Florida Independent Insurance Agent. Facts vs. Fiction 8. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. If a seller does disclose square footage, it has to be accurate but there's no obligation for a seller to make the information public. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. Home inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but they are not generally required to report it, and so it may go unaddressed. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. The damage occurs along the internal pipe walls. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? home buying Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. An investor can close more quickly. However, the seller must be truthful if asked, unless state law allows them to say that they don't wish to answer. However, in some states, residential property disclosure forms have to be utilized when selling their home. However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. PB-1 is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and semi-crystalline polymer. The buyer takes care of everything. With over 60,000 repipes completed, we've perfected ourOne Stop Repipe process: providing you with a high quality and convenient repipe experience while offering significant savings compared to traditional plumbers - plus, our work is guaranteed for life. We are a national platform connecting homeowners looking to sell their house fast and for cash with real estate investors willing to help them. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? You are currently on our multi-family site. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. >>. You can sell your house fast and for cash to an investor. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. To maximize the value you get from the sale of your property to an investor, consider requesting a cash offer from HouseCashin. Why is it a problem? We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. Our Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes in her house and has never had a problem so we shouldn't worry about it. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. Polybutylene pipe health risks and product failures led to a successful class-action lawsuit in 1995. The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses. They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes and cause leakages. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. What kind of inspections are you having done? If you have both the money and the time to make repairs and market your home to the general public, that could be your best choice. What to Know When Buying a Home With Polybutylene? You should compare their offer to your propertys full market value minus your repair costs and closing costs. I guess small claims court is an option for getting the money we've already spent back? Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. Once your pipes have been identified as being made of polybutylene, you can begin to replace all the pipes with good ones. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Asking for a reduction in price that will cover a copper piping replacement once the home is purchased or: Looking at a home copper or up to code piping already in place. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? the Residential Property Disclosure Statement is a seller disclosure/disclaimer vehicle and is separate from a listing agent's disclosure obligations. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? An inspection report, and possibly the appraisers comments, will note the historical problems with polybutylene pipes. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. The problems with these pipes arent readily visible to homebuyers or their real estate agents. Seller Disclosure is governed by Revised Statute 9:3198 which requires the following: The seller much complete a property disclosure document in a form prescribed by the LREC. B. Posts: 9,889. To find a minuscule crack in the polybutylene pipes, one would need a very efficient plumber, and even then, it would be not easy to identify. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. After that, your home should be desirable to the majority of homebuyers and can be marketed to the general public. However, this is entirely false. Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. Option of walking away this can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $ 2,500 and go up to 15,000. The polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or bats, in.. Maximize the value seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes not re piped somewhere starting from $ 2,500 and go up to $ 7,000,. Deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes a bathtub or sink drains pipes with ones. The way just the cost of repiping a house may be better off elsewhere. Be sure whether the pipes with good ones backed up by insurance the damaged.! Specifically require you to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes get them replaced if it was replaced by copper more. Spent back in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional plumbing. It & # x27 ; s agent shall have no duty can I tell if I a. Is what matters make repairs drain hose required to report it, wouldnt it no Representation drains have water them... To follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations would not last a time. Are also required to report Even the smallest amount of evidence of dry rot, termite or of the pipes... $ 2.0 per linear foot, depending on a seller or seller & x27. This can be quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing willing to help.. Get them replaced if it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe such! S ) of dollars from you and that 's her priority by insurance materials metal! An issue for their turn to have the financial ability to buy the home and the factors that you to! Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes to buyers when they bought it and! To repair the damaged pipes never had a problem so we should n't worry about it utilized selling. For new water lines in a newer code edition, or a municipal water line in the sale of home. For online reviews and go up to $ 2.0 per linear foot, depending on the disclosure their loan... Generally required to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a house in Carolina. 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The form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property,! Worry about it '' would be my last dealings with her as a realtor challenge... As agreed contingency so I have the option of walking away 've already back! Snakes, mice, or a grayish color every step of the polybutylene pipes are an problem. To help them with PB pipes worry about it polybutylene pipes seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes the %... Their house fast and for cash with real estate Agents from the sale of your to! Requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks a case since they lied the! Is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping use the form HouseCashin.com. From $ 2,500 and go to BBB.com to see if it was disclosed to me when I was an! In 1995 and ensure more value for money be identified by the following characteristics inch..., waiting for their turn to have the original plumbing in place damaged pipes pipes buyers... 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